{"id":4594,"date":"2021-11-05T06:42:17","date_gmt":"2021-11-04T17:42:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=4594"},"modified":"2021-11-05T08:20:05","modified_gmt":"2021-11-04T19:20:05","slug":"dr-rebecca-deed","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=4594","title":{"rendered":"The science of wine: Dr Rebecca Deed"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t
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I\u2019m finally getting around to talking to Dr Rebecca Deed, who was my \u2018panel leader\u2019 at the Royal Easter Show Wine Awards this year. Rebecca is a Senior Lecturer in Wine Science and by all accounts a very sought-after judge at Wine Shows.<\/p>

WineFolio<\/strong>: Great to catch up with you \u2013 even if we have resorted to doing it through Zoom! I have to say I\u2019ve done a couple of these, with mixed results! One of the recent ones was Chris Scott, when Church Road were just releasing some new wines. And that was an interesting chat, but I do find Chris a great person to talk to anyway. He\u2019s a good interviewee, and that\u2019s not always the case, not at all.<\/p>

Rebecca Deed<\/strong>: Yes, I can imagine it could be quite challenging sometimes.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Anyone who \u2018wears a mask\u2019 – by which I mean has a public persona \u2013 typically, for example, high-performing sportspeople. Don\u2019t want to show weakness, always want to win, don\u2019t want difficult questions\u2026 or captains of industry. Hahaha.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: There\u2019s a level of comfort as well. I imagine some people are quite comfortable being interviewed, whereas others could be more reserved.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: And I always try to do it person to person. I get a lot more out of it. You can always steer a discussion in directions that you want to go \u2013 whether in person or over a device. Speaking of which \u2013 here we are, talking over the internet \u2013 that must have changed how your job operates\u2026 what\u2019s been the challenges for you?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: We\u2019ve just found out that all teaching for the rest of the semester is online, regardless of alert changes. So back to all online teaching. Makes it tough, especially when you run a wine tasting lab! I mean, that can\u2019t happen online. It\u2019s just impossible, and I haven\u2019t been able to think of an equivalent. Other than sending wine out to students, but logistically that\u2019s impossible \u2013 for a class of ninety (laughs). So it\u2019s really tough.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: So what do you do? Just talking theory?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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RD<\/strong>: I make alternative worksheets, assignments, and they have to write a tasting note based on technical data of a wine instead. Which is still a reasonable assignment but it is definitely not the same as having them in person – tasting actual wine. For the post-grads we did actually send them wine in the mail, which was quite cool. They got a couple of wines and contrasted them.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Teaching people the theory of making wine \u2013 is that part of what you do?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: It is a part of what I do \u2013 for the postgrad course, which is essentially a\u00a0 winemaking course. So students want to become winemakers. I teach the part about wine microbiology \u2013 the yeast and the bacteria \u2013 all of that element. And the sensory as well. How that fits in with winemaking.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: So how do you get into that?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Really, I fell into it – it wasn\u2019t a defined path. I navigated through my studies and it is where I ended up. I started off doing an Honours project in plant science. Completely unrelated \u2013 Magnesium deficiency in a small weed and how that impacts on the genetics of that plant. Then my professor at the time \u2013 Professor Richard\u00a0 Gardner<\/strong> – was starting to move into wine yeast research. He made a pact with me \u2013 \u201cif you get a certain grade for your dissertation then you have to come and do a PhD\u201d. So I did get an A+. I went on and did a PhD with him in \u201cwine yeast and the impact of low temperature fermentation on yeast aroma production\u201d<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I was just typing up a chat I had with Kevin Judd<\/strong>, and there\u2019s a bit in there where he talks about that, and how his winemaking philosophy changed.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Yes, and look at him now \u2013 Greywacke<\/strong> wines are very much the top level of wild yeast and complexity. I like how adaptable the wine industry is and there is a lot of sharing of knowledge. There\u2019s an excitement that is transferable and people get on board to new things.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Talking to people down in Central \u2013 that\u2019s how they got started. They, in many cases, didn\u2019t really know what they were doing, or if it was going to work, even. And I imagine that old school, european way of making wine is probably quite different form what\u2019s taught in Wine School now.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I think there\u2019s quite a push for graduates to experience wine outside of New Zealand. Particularly if they want to become winemakers. We do encourage them to do vintages overseas. Even now, with COVID, we\u2019ve had one of our graduates go over to Greece. So you get to experience the \u2018old way\u2019 of doing things as well as what you\u2019ve learnt in the classroom. And I think that\u2019s true of New Zealand being very collegial. You\u2019re still competitors in the market, but it\u2019s really only until you get into aspects like low alcohol wines where the sharing only goes so far! Then there\u2019s a patent and it\u2019s interesting looking at the dynamics of the industry in that way.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: So moving on from study\u2026 going from science to wine \u2013 was that a step that you thought would be interesting and fun?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Not initially. I didn\u2019t really drink much wine when I was in my early twenties. It wasn\u2019t something that was really on my radar as something that I was particularly interested in. So through science is where I got exposed to wine as a beverage, and that\u2019s when I found that I really enjoyed wine itself. I could pick out some characteristics and that I had a reasonably good palate. And that was quite a revelation to me. And I was really into perfumes at that time and I thought maybe it was because I\u2019m used to smelling different aromas, and it was a natural parallel.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Did you consider working in perfumes, scents?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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RD<\/strong>: Probably not. I took more of a biological pathway rather than chemistry, so I would have had to take more chemistry papers as an undergraduate. Which wasn\u2019t my natural ability. That\u2019s ironic given that I\u2019m now part of the school of chemical sciences (laughs).<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: When I was studying, I lived in a big old house, shared with numerous other students doing lots of different degrees. And one person was studying chemistry and specifically interested in perfumes, so she would bring home these ampoules of scent \u2013 some were liquids and oils, others were powders. And we\u2019d go through them and try to note down what we could pick out of each one. So she might say \u2018what\u2019s in this one?\u2019 and I\u2019d say I could smell, raspberry, bark and violets.. and she would say \u2018well, it\u2019s orris root\u2019. And so now I have to stop myself going down the rabbit hole of that whole world of scents, because if I was to taste a Syrah and say it has aromas of orris root \u2013 people are going to think I\u2019m pretentious \u2013 or at least not have a clue what I\u2019m on about?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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And I do find it strange that one of the most common descriptors for New Zealand\u2019s most important wine \u2013 Sauvignon Blanc is \u2018gooseberries\u2019 \u2013 because who has gooseberries here in New Zealand? We had them growing in the garden back in the UK, but I\u2019m guessing that the majority of human beings have never eaten a gooseberry.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I can\u2019t say I\u2019ve ever tried a gooseberry in my life.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Are you someone who is interested in \u2018flavour\u2019 generally? Do you have a whole pile of cookbooks and go looking for unusual ingredients?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Yep, very much into cooking and baking. Cocktails, mixology – one of my big hobbies. Particularly tropical cocktails, so tiki culture\u2026 Mai Tai\u2019s. Yeah! And I do have some Chardonnay vines in my back yard, so I\u2019m going to make some Chardonnay at home! Lockdown hasn\u2019t been too terrible.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I ended up in wine because it was something that I was quite interested in. I\u2019ve done general \u2018leisure interests\u2019 writing \u2013 so I might be asked to write about art and culture, or food, or music; and then when I moved to New Zealand I took the opportunity to work in Tourism \u2013 and why not \u2013 it\u2019s a fantastic tourism destination.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I can see that it\u2019s a natural progression from journalism and tourism, into wine. Yvonne Lorkin had that TV series that was quite fun.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Now, I really liked that. I like the stories, and I thought that series was quite inspiring, where she would talk to the people, and then get to the wine at the end.\u00a0 I do combine that tourism angle into my wine writing. It\u2019s my intention to visit every Cellar Door in the country.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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RD<\/strong>: Ooh \u2013 so where are you up to?<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I dunno \u2013 I really ought to make a map and cross the places off as I go. I must have done a couple of hundred by now. I moved here from Bristol in the UK, and I\u2019d been to every pub in Bristol.<\/p>

Would you say that you now work more in \u2018wine\u2019 or in \u2018science\u2019?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: At the heart of me I\u2019m still as scientist. Who happens to do wine stuff. That\u2019s the fun, peripheral bits. But most of my research is on wine in some form. One of my students is looking at yeast forming clumps \u2013 so flocs during fermentation \u2013 and whether we can increase the colour and intensity of Pinot Noir from that behaviour.<\/p>

We found that the more that they clump together, the deeper the colour you get from the Pinot. Whether or not consumers prefer a deeper colour in Pinot \u2013 winemakers are a bit concerned.\u00a0<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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In the process, with malolactic fermentation and additions of sulfur dioxide you can get colour bleaching. So a deep colour up front can be beneficial. So that\u2019s quiet a cool finding from Katasha\u2019s work so far. Getting a good result is great, because a lot of science experiments don\u2019t work! (laughs). But to me it is really fascinating.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: That sounds really fascinating, yes. But then something that I\u2019m really interested in \u2013 for example might be the solera system. And I\u2019m fairly obsessed with that. And I start talking to someone and within twenty seconds you can see them just glaze over!! And I get upset because I want them to feel an interest in it, but they just go \u2018nope, that isn\u2019t interesting\u2019, so I just have to accept that it takes all sorts\u2026<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Well you can talk to me about the solera system, because I think it\u2019s fascinating too. And flor \u2013 the flor yeast and how, if you look at it under a microscope \u2013 different ones – you\u2019ll never get one that\u2019s identical. Every flor is different.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Well, to me, I\u2019d say it\u2019s bound to be. I have a bottle of \u2018Malaga\u2019 which is a fortified wine from southern Spain, and the Solera dates from 1885. And my wife hears me talking to non-wine people about things like that, and she\u2019ll just kick me under the table.<\/p>

But, going back to wine science \u2013 is it a case of you go to work in the morning and it\u2019s \u2018yay, wine tasting today!\u2019? Is that a thing that brings joy to your work?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Yes, and wine judging. It\u2019s like catching up with friends that you haven\u2019t seen in a few months, since the last time you were judging. I think it does also directly impact my research to some extent, because I do get ideas from the people and the winemakers I talk to. But if I suddenly couldn\u2019t judge one day, I\u2019d still have my wine research and career.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: How did you get shoulder-tapped to do judging?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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RD<\/strong>: When I was doing my PhD, Randy Weaver<\/strong> was the Director of Wine Science, who was ex-Coopers Creek and a well-regarded winemaker in New Zealand. He said that the Royal Easter Show was looking for stewards, and that anyone from Wine Science could participate. So I put my hand up to be a steward at the show and enjoyed it. Got to know a few people there and got asked back the following year by Shona White<\/strong>, the Wine Show Queen, and after a few years of doing the stewarding I got to know some of the judges. Jane Skilton<\/strong>, Geoff Kelly<\/strong> of course.. and they became mentors, and I shared some of my wine tasting experiences with them. Got to know them pretty well. And I did the WSET course with Jane as well, which I really loved. I also got to know Kate Radburnd<\/strong> quite well, and all those people suggested that I try out judging.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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So from there I became an associate judge, had a go and did that for a few years. And then eventually I got promoted to Senior Judge and I\u2019ve been a Panel Leader for the past couple of years. It\u2019s a very collaborative, supportive environment. Particularly the Royal Easter Show \u2013 it\u2019s the one where you feel you\u2019ve got mentors.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: I do tastings with WineFolio, and one of our distinctions with that is we usually don\u2019t have winemakers on the panels. You\u2019ll have seen at the show, where you were my Panel Leader and I was an associate judge \u2013 that I don\u2019t have any background in winemaking, at all \u2013 so all my knowledge in wine is really from the consumer side of things. Of course I talk to winemakers all the time, but even then, I\u2019ll sometimes say \u2018errrr, what does that mean?\u2019<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I think there\u2019s a lot of expertise that\u2019s just as valid as having a \u2018winemaker judge\u2019. We can\u2019t exclude people based upon not having a certain credential. I think that\u2019s something in the wine industry that we really need to move away from. There is still that sense of snobbery.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Funnily enough that\u2019s one of the questions I wanted to ask you. As you become more \u2018expert\u2019 at understanding wine, and really knowing the ins and outs of it\u2026 and I\u2019ve been accused of this \u2013 is that you are seen as a \u2018wine snob\u2019.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: In my classes I try and step back from the fact that I am what would be considered an expert, and not your typical consumer. I have to assume there is no knowledge or technical info. I think that\u2019s really important because otherwise they don\u2019t have the confidence to taste the wine and they feel very scared to say anything during the labs and to give an opinion because it seems so daunting. It\u2019s important to be aware of the fact that this is a thing in the industry. And wine is perceived as being a product for a certain type of person. That you have to \u2018know\u2019 to enjoy it.<\/p>

It doesn\u2019t help that fine wines from Europe for example are quite prohibitive now, in terms of price. At one point in my life I did consider trying to climb the ladder up to Master of Wine, but I mean financially I just can\u2019t do it. I don\u2019t have the money and it\u2019s just not possible for me unless I had a sponsor.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: It\u2019s a shame that those great wines are now \u2018tradeable commodities\u2019 like stocks and shares. One good thing I suppose is that in New Zealand we have some wines that are like a mirror to those great wines. You might think I want to try a Grand Cru Clos de Vougeot, but you can have a Felton Road<\/strong> instead? You want a Montrachet? Have a Kumeu River<\/strong>\u2026 any thoughts on that?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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RD<\/strong>: Definitely can\u2019t write off New Zealand \u2013 it makes some stellar examples. You can still go to tastings \u2013 Caro\u2019s for example do some tastings of European wines. For some you don\u2019t have the equivalent \u2013 like Barolo and Barbaresco. But personally I buy a lot more New Zealand Pinot Noir than I would ever buy a burgundy. For several reasons \u2013 one being the price is much less. And the quality is just as good, if not better, and more consistent. And I prefer the New Zealand style with it being a bit more fruit forward and mouth-filling. We\u2019ve got some go-to\u2019s like Rockburn<\/strong> and Two Paddocks<\/strong>.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: And more approachable. I mentioned Clos de Vougeot and really it is ten years before you should be drinking that. Whereas something like Valli<\/strong> \u2013 we had the 2019s in the WineFolio Top 10 tasting – and they would absolutely scare the pants off a burgundy, and they were 2019s \u2013 drinking beautifully now!<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I love how Jen has got all of the different vineyards in the sub-regions and you can really see the terroir between those wines. It\u2019s just like in Burgundy.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: And I think that many of our wine regions will go down that sub-regional definition road. What do you think might be next for New Zealand \u2013 is it that fine-tuning of what sub-regional wines do; or something else, like a varietal that bursts through?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: It\u2019s going to be hard to push off Sauvignon Blanc. The Marlborough style is still going to be our big winner in terms of exports. I think Pinot Noir is still important and if we can manage that yield\/quality question and produce something with high yield that still maintains quality that will have huge impacts. Overseas they are looking at that $25 a bottle mark. If we can get Pinot on the shelves alongside the Sauvignon then that\u2019s a big win for New Zealand. I think Albarino is exciting in New Zealand. We make some outstanding examples.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I\u2019ve been quite surprised by Albarino, because I was sceptical. But I\u2019ve had a couple recently where I just thought \u2018whoa, hang on!\u2019.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I\u2019m quite keen because I\u2019ve got a student lined up next year to look at the aroma profiles of New Zealand Albarino, and then have a comparison with the Spanish Albarinos. We can see if we\u2019re starting to have a \u2018New Zealand style\u2019 which could be fun. And New Zealand Chardonnay is under-rated worldwide. Some of our Chardonnays are just as good as anywhere.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I\u2019m always keen to hear what people answer to that question. I was pleased when a couple of people said Syrah.. but it\u2019s so small. And I often think \u2018sparkling\u2019 myself \u2013 our quality is so good. But sparkling has massive limitations. Not only the C-word, but every wine country does sparkling and are generally really proud of their own. So, go to a restaurant here and yes, you will see a New Zealand methode on the wine list – but you won\u2019t see one on a list in Australia. They\u2019ll be promoting their own versions.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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So, yes, I guess that Chardonnay could be the one. I did smile when the first couple of people said Chardonnay because I thought it\u2019s a bit of an easy answer. But then – and I think I\u2019ve only really seen it over the last couple of years \u2013 is that overseas writers are really starting to get on board with it. In particular the UK. I thought it was a really smart move when Hawke\u2019s Bay Winegrowers sent out that box of twelve top Chardonnays from the 2019 vintage to writers. Because, then it\u2019s not just the odd one here and there \u2013 Kumeu River<\/strong> or Pyramid Valley<\/strong>, or whoever \u2013 now it\u2019s twelve absolute bangers from one place, one year \u2013 and yet despite all being superb, they were subtly different as well. And after the release of the 2020 vintage I went back to Paul Brajkovich<\/strong> for a soundbite about how well the wines had been received and he was just smiling from ear to ear and said \u201cyes – it\u2019s gone really well\u201d<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Michael really knows how to make his Chardonnay that\u2019s for sure. He\u2019s a very measured, intelligent winemaker. Knows his science as well, which I respect him for.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: Going back to your mention of Albarino \u2013 do you think that global warming is going to have an impact on what is grown here?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I think so, we\u2019ll have to worry about alcohol levels climbing. I think that\u2019s the big one, and a more short-term worry. So any techniques we can use to mitigate that will be important. Especially with canopy management. We\u2019ve done some work with yeasts \u2013 trying to reduce alcohol through them but that\u2019s quite challenging. You only usually get a very limited decrease. You may see some other varieties in different regions.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: What about other things outside of the vineyard \u2013 like glass and water useage?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: All of those things are at risk with global warming. Everything is going to get more expensive, and we\u2019re going to have weather patterns that are problematic \u2013 you can see that already now. Harvest is getting earlier each year because we\u2019ve got these warm growing seasons. It\u2019s real. We\u2019re really seeing it and it depends on how fast it is going to move.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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It\u2019s interesting that Bordeaux have changed the appellation rules to allow for different varieties that are not traditional to Bordeaux, like Touriga Nacional. Seems crazy \u2013 the French are usually so strict with their appellation laws. The New Zealand industry is adaptable though. Just look at the screwcap initiative \u2013 we can push to something new when we have to.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I worry about how wine is perceived as well \u2013 in that whole mix which includes global warming. Should we be putting all this energy into creating what might be seen an older person\u2019s thing \u2013 or a \u2018rich mans\u2019 thing? That perception?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I don\u2019t think there\u2019s risk of that at this stage. Our export market is so big and it is driving a lot of the decisions that we make, in what we plant and what we produce. I know a lot of young people today don\u2019t drink wine. Even my students who take the course say \u201cI don\u2019t drink wine, but I\u2019m happy to try it\u201d. They\u2019re quite conscious of their health and I think that\u2019s why low-alcohol options are becoming quite important whether we like it or not.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Demand still exceeds supply though. This has been a low-yielding vintage and I know people have been scrambling to increase their Sauvignon Blanc volumes. So Hawke\u2019s Bay Sauvignon Blanc has been put into Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc. De-colourised reds have been used to amp up the volume where they can. There\u2019s still that very big global demand, but who know in future?<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Thoughts on things like \u2018natural wine\u2019?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: They have their place for sure. They\u2019re a very valid part of the market. It\u2019s a good way for a lot of young people to get into wine. It is seen as different from what their parents drink. It comes from that craft beer mentality. Do I drink much natural wine? Not really (laughs).<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Does it get covered in the course at all?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: It does \u2013 particularly in the post-grad course. We talk about how as a winemaker you will have your philosophy and that might change over time.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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Sometimes you do get people going into the natural wine industry who don\u2019t have a background in winemaking, so there is that risk that you get faulty wines that are not good. That can then taint the perception of natural wines.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I noticed, on social media, you had been down to Waipara<\/strong> recently. It\u2019s a really interesting region, that does have that natural, and experimental winemaking facets, as well as the more established ones, and then some really old world style vineyards \u2013 but a New Zealand version of all of that…<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I fully agree. My partner, Blair is from Christchurch. So when we go to visit his parents we usually go to at least one winery in Waipara. We\u2019ve done Pegasus Bay<\/strong>, Black Estate<\/strong> and Greystone<\/strong>. Trying to tick them off one by one. That vineyard ferment from Greystone \u2013 that\u2019s phenomenal. There\u2019s no fault or taint in it at all, which considering it is from the pied de cuve. That\u2019s quite a risky technique. On Waiheke with our students we tried to do a pied de cuve a few times and it is really difficult to control. Most have not smelled great, and had to be tossed. Hat off to them for doing such a good job.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: What do you think makes a wine a great wine?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I think harmony – so harmonious in all aspects from start to finish. That goes with balance. Varietal typicity. I think that\u2019s a concept that might be difficult for some consumers to know what is meant by that as well. But to me that\u2019s something really important. It can come in a wide range of styles but still have varietal typicity.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I think that is under-rated and very important. What about ability to age?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I don\u2019t think that\u2019s so important. It depends on what it is. I love a good early-drinking Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc that\u2019s full of thiols \u2013 I definitely don\u2019t want to age it. I really don\u2019t like the asparagus, green pea character that you get from those (laughs) but early one… yeah I love them. I guess ageability had traditionally been part of quality. If you\u2019ve got a wine that can age, that shows it really has the bones.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: Do you have favourite wines?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I do. I have lots of favourites. Where to start? I guess in terms of Chardonnay I\u2019d say Kumeu River<\/strong> Mat\u00e9s, but I love American Chardonnays as well. Hartford<\/strong> is one of my favourite producers that Caro\u2019s were stocking. And I\u2019ve got good memories of that too, because it was probably the first time my partner had tried American chardonnay and he just absolutely loved it. We kept buying the Hartford Estate wine and have got a couple of the single vineyard ones in the cellar as well.<\/p>

Two Paddocks is quite special to me. It links in to our anniversary. We went to the Sugar Club<\/strong> for our anniversary dinner and we had that wine with the dinner. It\u2019s a combination of the wine and the experience.\u00a0<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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All of my favourite wines are linked in with memories. My favourite New Zealand sparkling is Pelorus<\/strong> \u2013 it always delivers consistently and always delicious. I love a champagne whenever I can! (laughs \u2013 a lot) I think I use any excuse. Every time I get a publication accepted, I\u2019m like \u2018right it\u2019s time for champagne\u2019. Bollinger<\/strong> is probably our favourite champagne.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Do you have a collection of wine?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I do, it\u2019s at my parents place, because we just moved house. But we do actually have an under-house storage area in our new house, so that\u2019s going to be converted into a cellar at some point, for sure. I don\u2019t have that many wines \u2013 maybe about a hundred. It\u2019s an OK number. I used to work at Caro\u2019s for a bit on Saturdays and I got paid in wine. So that helped to amp up the cellar. I\u2019ve got some quite interesting Super-Tuscans and Spanish wines from Caro\u2019s. Some Barolo, Brunello which is quite exciting.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Now I remember at the Judge\u2019s Dinner you brought a bottle of chinese wine.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: That was from my Master\u2019s student who gave me two. They were both actually pretty decent. It\u2019s maybe a novelty. Even if the wine is not amazing, it\u2019s still a good talking point. I love that about wine \u2013 it really does bring out the stories.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: It\u2019s very personal as well isn\u2019t it? Down to your taste, in a way that I think music is similar. I\u2019m not necessarily going to like what you like. Someone was talking to me about how wine is like art, but I didn\u2019t agree\u2026I come from an arts background, and I reckon that these days \u2018art\u2019 can be anything. You put it on a wall and say it is art \u2013 then who\u2019s to argue with you? Music has a bit more structure, style and can be more easily understood, and critiqued? Our memories and tastes will shape what music we like, just as they will with wine.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I think that it is also true with wine that you could have a style that you don\u2019t particularly like, but you can still recognise it as being high quality. And the same for music? Especially if you know a little about music, you can recognise quality and structure. You may not necessarily like it, stylistically.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: Yes, or it can be \u2013 and this brings me round to something else I want to talk about \u2013 critical acclaim. You\u2019ve heard this won best of something \u2013 Grammys, Oscars, Champion wine.. and you watch it, taste it \u2013 and think \u2018well this doesn\u2019t do it for me?\u2019<\/p>

What do you think of the role of critics and reviewers in driving opinion?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: Hmmmm. I think they\u2019re very important. They do play a key role. Particularly in defining new styles, and quality. At the same time I think it\u2019s good to have your own opinion on wines and what you like. A bit of give and take. A reviewer may direct, but it\u2019s up to the consumer to decide what they actually like.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I\u2019m quite comfortable to be the one person in the room who doesn\u2019t agree \u2013 who thinks it\u2019s amazing, or rubbish! If I\u2019m just not \u2018on the page\u2019 then at least I can be honest and say so! Hahaha.<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: And I think that\u2019s important. We don\u2019t need everyone to be in agreement and \u201coh this is amazing\u201d. There has to be a bit of thought and critical discussion.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: And going back to judging \u2013 how do you think the Wine Show way of doing things works \u2013 pros and cons of that?<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: I think one of the \u2018pros\u2019 of it is that they do what they were designed to do, which is essentially to \u201cimprove the breed\u201d much like an agricultural show. It is as similar for wine as it is for a sheep. You\u2019ve got a certain level of quality that has to be reached to gain a medal. In that sense it is successful. I think consumers do make judgements whether to purchase based on medals. I think it is a good part of our industry, but is the be-all and end-all \u2013 probably not? You do get some differences from show to show, in terms of what wine will get a Gold, and then the next show they get a Silver. You don\u2019t want a show that has a quota of trying to get \u2018this many Golds\u2019 because that\u2019s not real.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I think the other option for Joe Public would be to find a critic that they agree with \u2013 whose tastes match their own. And how many of people, who might casually have a bottle of wine now and then, are going to go to the trouble of doing that? You\u2019ve got to be fairly well into your wine to spend time researching wine scores, and make a distinction between Cameron Douglas or Bob Campbell \u2013 or even know who those people are?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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RD<\/strong>: I think it is good that wine is getting a medal because it doesn\u2019t have any faults \u2013 that\u2019s important.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: It\u2019s good that you are getting twenty people in a room to gather an opinion on a wine, rather than just one person\u2019s thoughts. I have to say, I found it quite challenging. I can definitely do a fair few wines over an evening and give them reasonable attention \u2013 but when you\u2019ve got lines of over 30 or 40 and to do them in an hour\u2026and to get it right!<\/p>

RD<\/strong>: That\u2019s why you have a team! Its not possible for a single human being to do that many wines and do it accurately.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

I\u2019m finally getting around to talking to Dr Rebecca Deed, who was my \u2018panel leader\u2019 at the Royal Easter Show Wine Awards this year. 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