{"id":4249,"date":"2021-09-04T11:18:43","date_gmt":"2021-09-03T23:18:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=4249"},"modified":"2021-09-04T11:32:27","modified_gmt":"2021-09-03T23:32:27","slug":"winemaker-series-matt-thomson-sophie-parker-thomson","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=4249","title":{"rendered":"Winemaker series: Matt Thomson & Sophie Parker-Thomson"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t
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At the end of my recent trip to Marlborough, I caught up with our newest Master of Wine<\/strong> – Sophie Parker-Thomson<\/strong>, and well-known winemaker\/consultant partner Matt Thomson<\/strong>, to talk about their Blank Canvas<\/strong> label.<\/p>

It\u2019s usually me asking people how they\u2019ve got to where they are today, but first off Sophie wanted to know a bit about my background and how I\u2019ve come to be a commentator on New Zealand wines. I won\u2019t bore you with the five-minute explanation, but it did lead to an interesting discussion\u2026<\/p>

Sophie Parker-Thomson<\/strong>: When you think about the landscape of New Zealand wine communicators, from a producer perspective there are not many that have international gravitas and impact that assist in the marketing and selling of wine overseas. \u00a0<\/p>

Bob Campbell MW<\/strong> of course has been hugely instrumental in building the reputation and image of New Zealand wine internationally for a long time, and we now have Cameron Douglas MS<\/strong> who is starting to do some great NZ wine advocacy work. But when I ask our global distributors which other scores\/reviews carry weight in their market, there is generally only the same one or two names given out.<\/p>

WineFolio<\/strong>: There\u2019s also not too many who come from that background of writing and story-telling. I think some of them have learnt to do that. I\u2019m always looking to tell the story – the places I\u2019ve been, the people I talked to\u2026 then gradually the wine is at the end of that story. I never intended to be a wine reviewer or judge, I wanted to write.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Yes, that\u2019s a whole different ball game, judging.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I found it quite daunting. Not least, the speed at which you have to hammer through them.<\/p>

Matt Thomson<\/strong>: Which not everyone can do, accurately.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: I think that\u2019s one of the flaws of judging, is that things get rushed through.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: For me, whose background is sitting enjoying a glass of wine, and then discussing it, that\u2019s quite challenging. I said as much to Natalie Christensen<\/strong> at the show, and she said that, as a winemaker, she might have to assess over a hundred different ferments of one varietal in a very short space of time \u2013 so her winemaking background prepares her for something like judging, assessing, wines, at pace.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: Shall we look at a few wines?<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: We can taste and chat? I\u2019ve been mostly on the Sauvignon Blancs today, given it is \u2018International Sauvignon Blanc Day\u2019<\/em>, but I don\u2019t mind that. You\u2019d be surprised how many people don\u2019t want to look at Sauvignon? And I know that you may have a preference, but c\u2019mon..<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: But if you\u2019re professional then you do not exclusively look at what you like to drink \u2013 you consider what is actually important to consumers. \u00a0I get really frustrated when I hear comments from local winemakers \u201coh, Sauvignon\u2019s boring, Sauvignon\u2019s easy to make\u201d. Now people who say Sauvignon is easy to make usually don\u2019t make a good one! (laughs). Seriously. It\u2019s easy to make an OK one. But it\u2019s pretty hard to make a really good one. And it\u2019s detail, detail, detail.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: And starting outside the winery as well. Starting with the intentions of growing grapes that will make great wine.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: Yes, it starts with that. Site is so important, and then there\u2019s so much you need to get right. And people who don\u2019t want to do that variety, and they\u2019re in Marlborough? It\u2019s like saying you don\u2019t like doing sparkling wines in Champagne<\/strong>. You\u2019re in the wrong place, go somewhere else.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: That\u2019s one thing we always laugh about \u2013 Marlborough<\/strong> gets bashed for being a one trick pony, but does Barossa<\/strong> get nailed for doing Shiraz?<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: It\u2019s because Marlborough is successful. Jerez<\/strong> doesn\u2019t get pinged for doing Sherry well. Actually we do some amazing other things.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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We do a lot of good Pinot, and a lot of good Chardonnay\u2026 we still do the most Pinot in the country. So it\u2019s not that the others are unsuccessful, it just that Sauvignon has been so successful. We\u2019re excited about the other varieties but also very proud of our Sauvignons.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: All of our wines are single vineyard wines. That\u2019s our philosophy that we\u2019ve followed from Day One. And here is our new release of our Blank Canvas Abstract Sauvignon Blanc<\/strong>. We do two Sauvignon Blancs \u2013 our classic style of Sauvignon, which is very fruit-driven and precise \u2013 and sold out [2020, the 2021 is now released but strictly allocated!] \u2013 and this is our Abstract which our alternative interpretation of Sauvignon Blanc. It\u2019s hand-picked, whole bunch pressed, full solids fermentation, free-run only, fermented wild in seasoned French oak puncheons. We don\u2019t do any \u00a0lees stirring, no fining, no filtration \u2013 a lot of \u201cno\u2019s\u201d actually. It is on lees for 14 months. Pretty minimalist winemaking I guess, but it\u2019s knowing when to intervene and when to not do anything.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: We actually think it\u2019s closest to the style of white Bordeaux<\/strong> – the \u201917 even more so. It\u2019s got a sweet blackcurrant note that great white Bordeaux has.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: And I think it has, from that solids fermentation, that musky kind of character that white Bordeaux can get. Here in New Zealand it\u2019s unfortunate that we don\u2019t really get a lot [of white Bordeaux], and what does arrive gets allocated to fine wine purchasers and collectors. And it is expensive. But this is a category that Marlborough needs to be talking about more, because it is part of the premium-isation journey and part of the growing-up of Marlborough. We\u2019re always going to have that classic style and that\u2019s a part of what defines us to a large extent. But we\u2019ve also got these wonderful alternative styles of wine that are emerging and that we\u2019re getting better and better at.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: And each of your wines is from a special place isn\u2019t it? Is that where the name Blank Canvas comes from? You have no set ideas about something until you find the place and then think \u201cI can do something here\u201d?<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: It\u2019s also a statement about \u2018this is 100% ours\u201d. I\u2019ve got a background as being a consultant. As a consultant you\u2019ve got to respect the brief of the person who\u2019s paying you. You\u2019ve got to understand what they want you to do. But this is us, so we can do whatever we like!<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Multiple meanings and it\u2019s also a synthesis between art and science. Matt\u2019s background is in science, and I\u2019m now a Master of Wine and we\u2019ve got these divergent skills, but we do firmly believe that you need the science background in order to be creative with wine, because if you don\u2019t know the boundaries of the canvas you can only paint a tiny picture in the centre.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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If you do know the boundaries you can paint right to the edge (without going over it)\u2026 But Matt is definitely the winemaker and I\u2019m more like the glorified cellar rat. But importantly we talk about all our wines and wine styles, and what we should do each year together \u2013 and more or less every night.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Are there times where you\u2019ve worked somewhere and they are getting you to do X with it, but you are thinking that would be much better with Y?<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: You state your case and you justify it, but ultimately if that\u2019s not what they want to do, you\u2019ve got to respect that. I don\u2019t say yes all the time. It\u2019s their money and it becomes their problem if it\u2019s wrong. I\u2019ve always felt in life that people are much more tolerant of their own mistakes, and very intolerant of mistakes that are imposed upon them.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: There\u2019s a lot of cross-pollination between what we do at Blank Canvas and our clients. Clients benefit from what we do at Blank Canvas too because we are being a bit more experimental with these wines. And successes get fed back to the client about things that have worked really well. We\u2019ve changed our labels now, so the vineyard goes on the front. So it\u2019s \u2018Blank Canvas \u2013 Holdaway Vineyard \u2013 Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc\u2019.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I got hold of a big batch of Sauvignon Blanc 2020s at the end of a big wine show I was stewarding at, and a few labels I\u2019d not had before like Holdaway<\/strong> and Caythorpe<\/strong>. But I have to say there haven\u2019t been many 2020s where I haven\u2019t thought they were very good.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: We don\u2019t enter shows and there\u2019s a reason for it. In fact we don\u2019t enter panel tastings of any sort with our Blank Canvas wines I know very well, with my long history with St Clair<\/strong> as an example, of what you need to do to win at wine shows. You need to make a very good example of a mainstream wine, and for it to be what people expect. If it strays too far out stylistically then there\u2019ll be some judges don\u2019t like it. Even if a couple really do like it, one won\u2019t; and then you\u2019ve got a problem as it drags your scores down.<\/p>

So with Blank Canvas, we know we\u2019re making something that\u2019s not necessarily mainstream, but what we would like to think qualifies as a fine wine considered in an international context, so we would send or show them to \u00a0individual wine critics. They may or may not like it and that\u2019s fine, because not everyone will like what we do. But if they do like it, there\u2019s a good chance they\u2019ll really like it. And that fits with our idea that we\u2019d rather make wines that some people love, than what everyone \u2018quite likes\u2019. That\u2019s the difference between making those mainstream wines that everyone likes, and something that actually gets you thinking.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Well, I\u2019m a big advocate for wines with character and personality. If you look in the Silver Medal tier you\u2019ll find those \u2013 where it was a wine that some loved, but someone didn\u2019t like it, so it got pulled down to a Silver. And also the stuff at the edges is often where the interesting things are.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: I find it fascinating. You look at the results these days and a lot of the time the second tier wines get the Golds, and Flagship wines of the winery actually end up getting Silver or Bronzes. Frequently that\u2019s what happens \u2013 and I study wine show results a lot!<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: This is a great wine. I see what you mean about blackcurrant, but it\u2019s also got really lovely mandarin peel and ginger spiciness hiding in there too.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: Sometimes \u00a0green descriptors are used for Sauvignon Blanc \u2013 for example, blackcurrant leaf.. but for me this has the sweet blackcurrant, bonbon style flavour that white Bordeaux also has..<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Coming from the north of Europe \u2013 and part of my family is Norwegian, we have a whole range of currants and berries that you don\u2019t see much of outside of there. White ones, and pale pinks ones \u2013 I don\u2019t recall the names.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: We note the different spectrums of currants as ways to describe our subregions. So, Southern Valleys<\/strong> tends to have more white currant, we find; then down in Dillons Point<\/strong> tends to be that blackcurrant expression.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: What about those little snowberries they have in the alpine regions \u2013 amazing. We had just been up at the Holdaway\u2019s Wye Valley property and were eating them as they grew in the wild \u2013 they were so tasty!<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: \u00a0The Holdaway family in Dillons Point have \u00a0a huge \u00a0forestry block up in the Wye Valley. They\u2019re regenerating 2000 hectares of it into native forest.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: 20 square kilometres! Incredible. It\u2019s a huge undertaking. They\u2019ve got possum lines, to eradicate the possums, and have killed a whole lot of pigs and deer. Because that\u2019s the key to regenerating. And it\u2019s happening fast. They\u2019ve got these mature stands of totara and every species of beech that I know of.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: They are amazing in terms of their vineyard, their regenerative approach to everything, their sustainability.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I was with Hatsch yesterday, finishing off a piece with him, because the last time I was here I got halfway through and had to run. And he was saying that they\u2019re not going down the Biodynamic path, although they could; but they\u2019re happy doing a really good job at Organic \u2013 like Organic Plus.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: And many people do not realise that there\u2019s actually a spectrum within regimes, so you\u2018ve got environmentally positive at one end and environmentally negative at the other; and in the middle you\u2019ve got neutral. Conventional viticulture spans a broad range. With organics it\u2019s a much narrower spectrum, but even that can be environmentally negative. We do feel that you can end up in a very environmentally positive position within conventional (a sub-set of which is regenerative), though it\u2019s important to note that you can also be organic and regenerative. It is interesting but exciting times with the work being done to improve the key metrics of soil health and biodiversity.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: What\u2019s also frequently misunderstood is that within a conventional regime, or let\u2019s say, regenerative, you can use all of the organic practices and applications you like, everything you know is positive, but importantly you can use other modern products and which allow more sustainable and environmentally positive outcomes.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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On biodynamics, we don\u2019t accept an almost religious like belief without any evidence. The thing that does work is soil microbiology, but there\u2019s no research that shows biodynamics preparations per se <\/em>work \u2013 in fact there are papers that say the opposite. I will absolutely accept something if someone can substantiate it. But I won\u2019t just believe. However, coming back to your point about stories and story-telling, the biodynamics story has really resonated with certain consumers and there are practitioners who are deeply passionate about the rituals and the all-encompassing biodynamic life, which I respect. \u00a0<\/p>

But I would take the same challenging approach to vineyards. \u00a0\u201cYeah, OK, fine \u2013 show me how it works. Show me the mechanism, describe it to me. Show me the research that shows it\u2019s effective\u201d. They can\u2019t.<\/p>

The Holdaways \u00a0have really impressed me. They have worked on a programme for a number of years now, and the last two seasons they\u2019ve managed to get some of their blocks through with 100% biological \u2013 no chemical sprays at all, no copper, no sulphur. \u00a0All vineyard regimes \u2013 conventional, organic, biodynamic traditionally use both copper and sulphur. Organics\/BD have to use more because they have limited other options. Both are broad-spectrum fungicides and copper particularly is acutely toxic.<\/p>

All the Holdaways did was applied competitive microbes. This beneficial microbial activity \u00a0out-competes \u00a0the pathogen, and as a result you don\u2019t get powdery mildew, downy mildew, and nor do you get botrytis. . This season they got right through until harvest with that genuinely no-chemical-spray regime. Now I can tell you no-one else that I know of has been able to that. Or even tried to do it properly. Some people have actually tried biologicals half-heartedly, but that doesn\u2019t work. If you don\u2019t get it 100% right, and you end up getting a fungal infection you\u2019ve got to hit it with a fungicide (any kind whether it\u2019s systemic or sulphur), then of course you\u2019re going to lose all the positive microbes.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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This is our Gruner Veltliner<\/strong>.. we\u2019ve played around with it since it first became available to plant in New Zealand. First vines were planted in 2008-9 growing season after they went through their quarantine period. One of Matt\u2019s friends, Malcolm Adams, planted a couple of hectares, and Matt said it could be quite good because it\u2019s a similar climate to the Wachau in Austria. We\u2019ve got relatively similar soils \u2013 loess and silt and gravel \u2013 and enough of a diurnal range so you get that ripeness and also the acidity. We\u2019re really happy with the style as it\u2019s evolved.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: How many people do Gruner here in Marlborough?<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Off the top of my head about fifteen, I\u2019d say<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: I can\u2019t remember what the wine was, but it was a Gruner from Marlborough.. and I\u2019m pretty tolerant, but it was the only wine I can remember in ages \u2013 that I spat out. It was bitter and thin.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: I think I know what went on there: \u00a0it was likely harvested with a high proportion of green\/unripe fruit. Gruner has got really thick skins and it goes through what we call a second veraison, \u00a0well after the normal veraison. It changes from green to golden and that happens quite late. If it doesn\u2019t get through that, then the thick skins give it a real bitterness. The other problem is if you wait forever for it to be really ripe, you end up with 14.5% alcohol. You\u2019ll notice with this, on the finish there\u2019s a bit of spice, and that\u2019s the natural white pepper spice from the Gruner skins. Now if you add a whole lot of alcohol to that as well, you\u2019ll end up with a very hot finish. So you can\u2019t have too much alcohol in my opinion.<\/p>

The trick is not to have too much green fruit, but how do you do that? Well, you approach it like a red wine. You need to green-thin. You need to take out that late fruit so you\u2019ve got a more even ripening, and it all goes through so when you harvest at 22-23 brix where it\u2019s got 13.5% potential alcohol, then you haven\u2019t got that green, bitter character.<\/p>

Now the other things is \u2013 when people approach a new variety, they tend to rely on how they make other wines. Gruner is very different to anything we have here in NZ. Sauvignon production is generally the go-to \u2013\u2026they\u2019ll often machine-harvest it, so it gets skin-contact; and that, with a thick-skinned variety means bitter phenolics. And they are bitter. Over the many years I\u2019ve been making wine internationally, I\u2019ve made a lot of different varieties. I look at each one and try and understand how to make the wine with an open mind, every single time. And a big part of that is doing your research beforehand by tasting as many examples of that variety as you can – \u00a0because you learn the mistakes that can be made. The next thing is to get out there and start chewing the grapes, working out what\u2019s in those skins. You ask \u2018Do I need to get them off the skins fast? What are the upsides, the downsides?\u2019 It\u2019s kind of a systematic approach, but it\u2019s one I\u2019ve built up over the years.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: We\u2019ve had a lot of success with the Gruner. It tends to go really well in on-trade. London on-trade love it. We\u2019ve had Austrians say \u2018that\u2019s very true to variety\u2019.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: \u00a0We\u2019ve actually got the highest [equal \u2013 shared with a Gruner from Sonoma and one from Czech] score on JancisRobinson.com<\/strong> for any Gruner outside of Austria. We get a bit more of the orange peel note than the Austrians do alongside fruit intensity.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Interestingly the Austrians have a particular word to describe the \u00a0\u2018good bitterness\u2019 in Gruner, that\u2019s the phenolic grip that\u2019s part of the textural structure. We use a bit of new oak with this wine. 60% of it went through French puncheons and about 20% was new oak. So, it\u2019s not enough that you particularly see it, but it\u2019s there to flesh out the mid-palate. I think that balance works quite well with that wine. And they do age very well.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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This is our Reed Chardonnay 2019<\/strong>, from a single vineyard in the Waihopai Valley<\/strong>. Mostly clay soils over there and the Reeds have been growing Chardonnay up there for about 25 years, so are now known as quite specialist producers. The Mahi Twin Valleys Chardonnay<\/strong> is from here, and Lake Chalice<\/strong> make one as well. Matt\u2019s known Pete and Anne Reed for a long time, and they actually approached us and said \u2018we\u2019d really love to grow for Blank Canvas\u2019 and so they planted some for us<\/p>

We are really happy with this wine. Jane MacQuitty<\/strong> from the Times recently said \u201cthis is the best Kiwi Chardonnay I\u2019ve tried this year\u201d. It\u2019s been very well reviewed. We\u2019re after that balance between the flinty, struck match character as well as that white peach. We specifically avoided using Mendoza clone because we think it doesn\u2019t go as well here as it does in Hawke\u2019s Bay, where you can get it riper.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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MT<\/strong>: 13.5% alcohol in Hawke\u2019s Bay and you can get ripeness, but you need to get Mendoza to 14% plus here. And Chardonnay at 14% plus can be heavy and lacks all elegance.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: We want elegance, and nothing above 13.5% so we\u2019re always striving for that 13% sweet spot because above that we find lose the flintiness that we really like. We like Clone 95, it\u2019s got a really lovely acid line but it\u2019s also got that white nectarine stonefruit character.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: In 2019 (and subsequent years) the ingredients are grapes and SO2. <\/sub>It\u2019s amazing when \u00a0it is just all in balance on the vine and you don\u2019t need to adjust it with anything \u2013 no acid, no chaptilisation. That\u2019s always what we\u2019re aiming for and that\u2019s what Clone 95 does so well here in Marlborough. We hand pick it, whole bunch press it to get around 600 litres per tonne which is on the low side (so a very gentle press). The free-run juice goes straight into puncheons, no settling whatsoever, so full solids. We leave it until it starts fermenting which is usually about six days and it goes through pretty fast. Then we top it up and leave it because it can take a while for the last couple of grams of sugar to go. In fact it took ten months! It went through malo naturally and then finally the RS depleted to zero. We really didn\u2019t want to filter it but if it had any residual sugar obviously we would have to. We don\u2019t stir the lees at all. We just racked it (gently!) then bottled it. No filtration, and an amazingly low total SO2<\/sub> \u00a0on this one. It\u2019s pretty much a natural wine.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: It\u2019s a pretty clean natural wine. And taut too \u2013 got a real tension to that.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: We think, and James Healy<\/strong> is an advocator of this as well\u2026is that one of Marlborough\u2019s best varieties is Chardonnay. We think it has a huge future here. And the global demand is insatiable.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: This sold in less than a year didn\u2019t it? And we had two different Chardonnays. It\u2019s probably the easiest variety to sell \u2013 on a par with our classic Sauvignon. And it\u2019s a pretty versatile variety. I think it is already \u2018our next big thing\u2019. I think people have really noticed New Zealand Chardonnay now \u2013 it\u2019s getting good press.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: I\u2019ve noticed that in particular the UK writers have really picked up on it in the last couple of years. And when those guys start to notice it, then good things follow. They also do have bloody good Chardonnay just over the water so\u2026<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: We had it in Bibendum<\/strong> \u2013 the sommelier there really loved our \u201918, so they took the entire UK allocation for their restaurant. It\u2019s good when the sommeliers are recognising it and getting behind it.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: So it you wanted your wine you had to go and eat at Bibendum!<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Pretty much. And we did! (laughs).<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: I also went back there, in September!<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Yes. I know. He\u2019s going to skite now. I was sitting home, in lockdown, and Matt was sending me all these photos of him dining out in restaurants.<\/p>

So.. let\u2019s move on to Pinot?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Our aim with Pinot Noir is to make very perfumed expressions, but with structure and fruit tannins as well. We do use quite a bit of whole bunch in our Pinot. 2018 was a lighter vintage in Marlborough, so this a slight departure from our norm, but I think it is a Nebbiolo-like expression. It\u2019s very floral and savoury but then you\u2019ve got the structure with \u00a0quite grainy tannins.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: The stem tannin is important, but the perfume was there for sure. Also, I get a graphite, pencil-shaving note from it. We love that character in the wines we drank from Chambolle-[Musigny]<\/strong>. It might not be a wine that everyone likes.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: It\u2019s not for a Pinot novice you know? Someone who really understands Burgundy and likes Chambolle-Musigny and perfumed, elegant styles \u00a0like that. We\u2019re not making a direct comparison of this wine to Chambolle but we have had several people mention that appellation but in a New Zealand context which we won\u2019t refute!<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: It\u2019s quite light on the nose, and although it\u2019s initially quite perfumed, it\u2019s not a blockbuster. Until you get to taste it. And then\u2026 that\u2019s the best Marlborough Pinot I\u2019ve ever had. That\u2019s what that is. It\u2019s got a touch of that Martinborough earth in it, but it\u2019s left that underneath, and applied that purity, and that ethereal lightness. Even the smokiness is quite wispy. I love that.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: that\u2019s interesting, because I\u2019ve been on quite a journey with Pinot, and Burgundy. Initially the appellation that impressed me the most was Gevrey. It had ripeness and\u2026<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: (interrupts, laughing) \u2026 he likes the good stuff!<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: I didn\u2019t particularly like Pommard<\/strong>. Chunky and hard. I found some Volnay<\/strong> really interesting, but now the appellation I think I love the most is probably Chambolle. It\u2019s got lightness, perfume. I\u2019ve moved away from that size and colour.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: We\u2019ve also really liked the Savigny-les-Beaune wines from Simon Bize<\/strong>, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve come across them? Amazing wines. They\u2019re beautiful.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF: <\/strong>Since I\u2019ve lived away from Europe, I\u2019ve found myself losing touch a bit with French wines, but I\u2019m trying to get back there \u2013 targeting a few tasting where there will be some good European wines, or finding people who will share wines. It\u2019s funny because I often get comments like \u201cOh why are you opening that \u2013 if I had something that good I\u2019d sit home and drink it all myself\u201d But I think those people don\u2019t get the culture, or soul of wine.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: Oh no\u2026 when Sophie got her Master of Wine we opened lots of bottles in a week or so, and I organised a surprise lunch. The guy who owns the restaurant Scotch<\/strong> here, he moonlights in coming to your house, cooking a beautiful deg menu, serving and cleaning up! So we kitted this dining room out with an extra table, because we actually had 14 of us, and Sophie had no idea it was happening.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: What was worse was he made me go out for a run, like a decoy, so I come back with a bright red face and all sweaty, open the door and then have a glass of champagne shoved in my hand and loads of party poppers in my face!<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: But seriously. The guys went to town with the wine. James and Wendy brought a grand cru Armand Rousseau<\/strong>, Simon and Jane brought a Latour<\/strong> \u201995\u2026 it was beautiful and we had this amazing range of wines, and it was all so cool. Then the funny thing was I had to cook dinner as they were all staying right through.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: It was really nice. You should never drink a special bottle on your own.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: I was trying to encourage some of my group of friends to get into opening good wine and sharing it, and someone waited until I\u2019d pulled the cork out of an old bottle of Penfolds<\/strong>, to then tells me \u201cDavid \u2013 that\u2019s $600\u201d and I\u2019d had no idea. Suddenly everyone wants to try that. We tried to have \u2018Poker Nights\u2019 and bring good wine, but that petered out to just beers\u2026<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: We went the other way (laughs). Years ago, I started a 500 night. Brian Bicknell, James Healy, Simon Waghorn, Gary Duke<\/strong> and myself. They had this rule that you couldn\u2019t spend more than $30 on a bottle of wine. So I\u2019d bring a $200 bottle of Barolo<\/strong> or something. They\u2019re like \u201chang on a minute\u201d so I said \u201cwhen is a better time for me to open a decent bottle than here\u201d. So next time everyone brought good bottles and we\u2019ve kept in. But you don\u2019t have to bring something that\u2019s crazy, just bring something you wanna share. The only thing was I always had a tax, and had to pour Sophie a glass on the way out.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I have a problem though with my \u2018special bottles\u2019 because I pull them out and I stroke them, tell them I love them, then put it away again. And it might be a couple of years before I see it again \u2013 and I do the same, so this goes on and before you know it, it\u2019s been there too long..<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: See that\u2019s the beauty about having a cellar. You get a bit of pleasure when you buy it,\u00a0 and then every now and then you go \u2018that\u2019s going to be a good one\u2019. Rather than just buy it, drink it, one time. You get to look at it.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Yours is very look-at-able, I must say. Mine\u2019s all just in boxes, I probably only have racks for 200, the rest is in the box it came in!<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Go and have a look! It was originally the cupboard under the stairs and then we wanted to do something accessible. We couldn\u2019t dig down because we\u2019re in Springlands and the water table is too high.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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MT<\/strong>: There\u2019s about 2000 bottles in there, it\u2019s a good number. That Quintarelli <\/strong>\u2013 the Amarone \u201907 – was given to me by the consultant winemaker when he was out here in New Zealand with his wife. He has since died, but was a good friend of mine, and I\u2019m keeping that for when she comes and visits again. Excuse this box of new arrivals, that\u2019s my new sherry. In fact I need to have a look at that.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: No, no you don\u2019t. And this is now our Central Otago Pinot<\/strong>. We both grew up in Central Otago so it\u2019s quite dear to our hearts. We were looking for a spot to source fruit and Anthem Vineyard<\/strong> came up. Steve Smith actually makes some from this same vineyard as well, so we take half each of this little block. It\u2019s in the Gibbston Valley<\/strong>, just to the Queenstown side of Kinross<\/strong>.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: I was just about to say Gibbston.. it\u2019s got that written all over it. I love Gibbston Pinot.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Yup, me too. It\u2019s actually my favourite sub-region. I love the aromatics and elegance.<\/p>

Have some cheese \u2013 this is my favourite, Parmigiano Reggiano \u2013 we have an Italian Food Market in Marlborough\u00a0 and we\u2019re used to eating it in Italy, and our daughter loves it. And a hard cheddar, and an aged Gouda as well.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: It\u2019s my favourite cheese too \u2013 I don\u2019t know how you knew that?! We always put it on our cheeseboard. We can get one in Farro that\u2019s a very aged Gouda and it has that butterscotch character and crystalline, salty bits. We\u2019re on the same page.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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SPT<\/strong>: Very aligned. Gibbston Pinot and Parmigiano.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: And Marlborough\u2019s best Pinot.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Honoured, flattered. What I am really excited about is that we are starting to get recognition for these single vineyard sites, and I think that is part of the evolution of Marlborough too. That process where the detail gets more and more over time. As people identify these special sites. What was originally just one big region, then sub-regions eventuate and then you\u2019ve got these little micro-sites.<\/p>

For this wine we\u2019ve used 50% whole bunch again because we thought it could handle it. Part of our ambition for doing Central Pinot was to have that elegance there, because I think that stylistically Central is changing. I had the Coal Pit Tiwha 2019<\/strong> and I thought that was actually really nice. That\u2019s got 40% whole bunch and I think Gibbston, in fact, Central in general, it needs whole bunch. If you look at the very top Burgundies, they\u2019re all using high proportion of whole bunch, yet still producing wines that are still an expression of site. It\u2019s about knowing your vineyard and knowing the vintage. Because in a cooler vintage you\u2019re not going to be using as much whole bunch.<\/p>

We were there two weeks ago, right at the end of the vintage, and Gibbston is usually the last to be harvested. This year we wanted about 30% whereas in \u201918 we were comfortable with 50%. It\u2019s interesting because older vines tend you really soak up the whole bunch too, so you need to increase it as the vines age.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: You seem like \u2018careful\u2019 winemakers. What\u2019s your approach to oak?<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Good question. We\u2019re very conscious of both our coopers and our toast levels and our new oak percentage. We never go over 35% new oak because we don\u2019t want too much sweet vanillin character. We\u2019re also using low toast oak across all our reds. We want a savoury expression for both our Pinots and Syrah, and with the higher toast you get that mocha\/chocolate character that we think meddles with the savoury expression. We look for particular coopers that we like. We like the Mercurey<\/strong> barrels for high impact and we use Francois Freres<\/strong>. The mocha character is a very \u2018new world\u2019 Pinot thing and we\u2019re not looking for it. Bell Hill<\/strong> use 100% Mercurey, and you can taste it \u2013 you go \u2018that\u2019s Bell Hill\u2019 because it\u2019s so distinctive, and not a bad thing at all. We like Bell Hill. They\u2019re an inspiration.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: It was inspiring, and so detailed. And so cool \u2013 lots of things about that place were so cool.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: So, bit of a gear change. This is our Element Syrah, from Gimblett Gravels<\/strong>. We\u2019re big fans of Northern Rhone \u2013 as you probably saw in the cellar \u2013 and that\u2019s been our inspiration really. We thought for a long time that Hawke\u2019s Bay Syrah<\/strong> can really compete on the global stage in that cool climate Syrah category. I think Hawke\u2019s Bay Syrah has had a bit of an identity crisis, not knowing exactly what it can and should be.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: I think I\u2019ve been lucky in that I\u2019ve come to it quite late, and missed the whole Barossa-wanna-be of it. I think it is quite distinctive, which is a start.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: Our first Syrah was 2014, made from Gimblett Gravels, and we\u2019ve been doing it as a co-ferment, but not with Viognier. We use Gruner Veltliner. Part of our ethos is always asking \u2018why?\u2019.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: When I heard about that use of Viognier, I asked why \u2013 so, now\u2026why Gruner?<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: You ask why Viognier, and one of the reasons is because that\u2019s what they\u2019ve got \u2013 in the Northern Rhone. It\u2019s not necessarily the best option in terms of co-fermentation, nor enhancing the aromatics. But you ask \u2018why Gruner?\u2019 and why not Viognier. Often we find examples of Cote Rotie that have a sweetness – an almost apricot jam note which is awkward with the very savoury nature of the coal tar, pepper nature of Syrah. And we don\u2019t want that. We looked at the alternatives \u2013 Chardonnay, Riesling, Sauvignon – which might have been a bit scary. Lots of options we could have used, but we came up with Gruner. The reason is if you look at the phenolics, they\u2019re very similar to Viognier, but Gruner\u2019s pithier. It doesn\u2019t go to that sweet jammy stage. And you\u2019ve got white pepper \u2013 so black pepper, white pepper\u2026it works.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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We use the skins in this. Some people do actually use the whole bunches. But for us I didn\u2019t want the juice of the Gruner, I wanted the phenolics. It\u2019s not that much \u2013 just 6 buckets, and it does have an effect! Gives a warmth on the palate, which is really interesting.<\/p>

SPT<\/strong>: It\u2019s not a big alcohol wine, it\u2019s only 12.9% but it feels like a rich, big wine.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Thanks, it\u2019s been really interesting talking to you guys. Sometimes it can be like pulling teeth, but this has been really entertaining.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: We were sitting around this table not that long ago, with Chris Howard, \u00a0he\u2019s got a degree in Anthropology, and he writes for WineFolly. Towards the end of the night he says \u201cI\u2019ve seen a lot of wine producers, but you guys are the most hardcore.\u201d<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: You\u2019re pretty into it, yes.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: We can talk wine morning, afternoon, evening, night time. Wine.<\/p>

WF<\/strong>: Is this how you can put up with a Master of Wine? Because you\u2019re as into it as she is?<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: Before we had Isabella, who\u2019s not here tonight\u2026 you\u2019d notice if she was\u2026 we had about five years from when I met Sophie. I said I\u2019m going to Europe \u2013 consulting \u2013 and you can come. So from that point on we spent five years going to every region \u2013 South America, Italy, France, Spain. So in all the wine regions we\u2019ve tasted all the wines, been to all the restaurants, and it was an amazing, incredible time actually.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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And for Sophie she was launched into the European world of wine. Which opened the door to the opportunity to do a Master of Wine, because you can\u2019t do it unless you understand it, and have gone to those places. You\u2019ve got to go there, to wrap your head around them. She had good wine knowledge locally, but then\u2026 And I don\u2019t think we appreciated it. Just how cool it was!<\/p>

I was doing a lot of travelling. 170 flights a year for 28 years. That\u2019s a lot. So I\u2019ve quite enjoyed not doing that. But there is a point where I\u2019m starting to think Blenheim\u2019s pretty small! I\u2019m missing London. I\u2019d hate to live there, but I love visiting.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/strong>: I chose not to. I could have actually gone to College in London, but my brother lived in London, so that was good enough! I had somewhere to stay, but it\u2019s a tough place, and dirty! I lived in New York in the \u201890s for a few months and it was aces. Still very dangerous though \u2013 heaps of homeless, and crime. But I loved it. I had a job in a bar in the South Street Seaport, when the Twin Towers were still there, and it was super busy. It only closed for 2 hours a day, between 4am and 6am, so we\u2019d get all the people from all the others bars, including staff, in until all hours. And I could even at 4am get a bus up First Avenue to where I was staying in the East Village, and get home, and listen to people being murdered outside.<\/p>

MT<\/strong>: It\u2019s a hard place to live. But it has a multicultural energy that Hong Kong has, and New York has. But all those places are hard places to live, but great places to visit.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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All photos supplied by Blank Canvas – several taken by the very talented Rich Brimer.<\/em><\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

At the end of my recent trip to Marlborough, I caught up with our newest Master of Wine – Sophie Parker-Thomson, and well-known winemaker\/consultant partner Matt Thomson, to talk about … <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4252,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4249","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews-with-nz-winemakers"],"yoast_head":"\nWinemaker series: Matt Thomson & Sophie Parker-Thomson - WineFolio<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=4249\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Winemaker series: Matt Thomson & Sophie Parker-Thomson - 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