{"id":14711,"date":"2026-05-25T06:07:50","date_gmt":"2026-05-24T18:07:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=14711"},"modified":"2026-05-25T06:23:31","modified_gmt":"2026-05-24T18:23:31","slug":"winemaker-series-dave-mackintosh","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/winefolio.co.nz\/?p=14711","title":{"rendered":"Winemaker series – Dave Mackintosh"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t
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Arriving at the Cuvar winery – and we\u2019re amazed that everywhere seems dry after a weekend of weather and rain warnings. Dave is out to see us (both Steven and I made the trip down) as well in. It\u2019s my first time at what is the old Esk Valley site. It is a trip I\u2019ve been planning to do for quite a while now. He ushers us inside and shows us a range of bunches of grapes on a bench.<\/p>

Dave Mackintosh<\/b>: We had 20mm which is pretty lucky considering the forecast. The grapes are really close. I already picked some for sparkling. That was two weeks ago and it has already finished ferment and will be going down to barrel today. I have some more Chardonnay that\u2019s starting ferment – from Kokako Farms. We\u2019re getting some 1066 clone, and it\u2019s interesting just how early it is.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>

Have a look there\u2019s no weight in that bunch – see that small little berry that it has – gives an intense flavour. And our Matapiro vineyard – this is Clone 95, and that\u2019s what you can get. Dense and the bunches are much bigger, and solid. If you\u2019ve got a bit of muck inside there, then botrytis comes on pretty quickly. I\u2019ll show you around and we can try a few things out of barrel?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WineFolio<\/b>: Thanks. It has taken a while to get down here. I know George (Fistonich) and we\u2019d talked about meeting up down in Hawke\u2019s Bay for a while. Then Michelle Richardson was at a do I organised and we said we would meet up – and then it was a question of checking with Karen (Fistonich).<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Yes, Ali said you knew George, and Karen\u2019s great – she\u2019s taken over the helm which is good. She comes down quite often.<\/p>

So, as you see\u2026 it\u2019s still how the old Esk Valley site was – and before that it was Glenvale. Built around 1932, post-earthquake, making sherry, port and liquers. This is an old photo which we\u2019re guessing is 1960 or so, and none of that part was planted in grapes then. But look how many tanks they\u2019ve got. Just full-on. The amount of sherry that people were drinking was insane!<\/p>

Then that dipped out and I think George bought it in 1986. Ripped out all these pines, and I believe the terraces were already there. Glendale originally planted it but they were unproductive and they put the trees in over the top. There\u2019s quite a bit of trunk disease in the Malbec and the Merlot. There\u2019s Syrah at the top and Cabernet Franc on the corner. We\u2019re also looking at whether there are other varieties we could plant.<\/p>

We\u2019ve got here but also the Cornerstone Vineyard. For me that\u2019s top 3 of the Bordeaux varietal vineyards in Hawke\u2019s Bay for sure. Gordon used to work with it too – I think the Villa guys used to battle over it a bit. But supply is probably outstripping demand at the present time. Those Bordeaux reds is where the pressure is, and I think some of it is on us to start educating people on the ageability. Because there aren\u2019t many wines in New Zealand that can do what the Hawke\u2019s Bay Bordeaux varietals can do. I still drink stuff like old Unison\u2019s and it\u2019s a story we need to start telling.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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It\u2019s cool to be still making wine in this place. There aren\u2019t too many of this age – probably Te Mata and Mission\u2026 of the older sites. And right here is where Gordon did all of his work. Amazing to think you could get 2000 tonne through here. I think some of it was processed and shipped out to some of the other Villa places? He did all of his reds in these concrete fermenters here. This was his \u2018Terraces\u2019 one, and we\u2019ll use this for the first time this year. Each one is about four tonne.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: Is it still well set-up for modern methods?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Yeah – there\u2019s a lot of forklifting goes on. This Pellenc de-stemmer is pretty amazing. We\u2019ve got a couple of presses – so all the equipment is here. They\u2019re both bag presses, and that one fits about five tonne of whole bunch Chardonnay in there, which is a nice volume. It\u2019s pretty easy – sometimes a little too gentle actually. Down there are our barrels, which is where all our top reds and Chardonnay come and have some time. We can cool it and keep sulphur low.<\/p>

We\u2019ll have a look at some Chardonnay first. This is Guardians 2025 which has been in barrel for around an eleven month period. This has zero new wood. It\u2019s a mixture of our Matapiro vineyard and the vineyard here. For old barrels it has good amazing texture and weight. I have put like for like together in tanks before I make the final blend.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: You let it go through malo?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Yes. Around 60-70% I think. There\u2019s quite a bit of Clone 95, and I don\u2019t believe it needs as much malo. This second one should have more toast, more wood. I just picked the barrels – didn\u2019t matter where they came from, I was just adding a bit more caramel sweetness. Still nice and fresh. A lot of places around the world – take Australia for example, have swung too far and are making ones like a Clare Riesling! For me a nice Chardonnay should be around 13% alcohol with nice acid but not where it dominates. I think I\u2019ll be doing more time on lees for the Chardonnays – including the Iris.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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This is a cool barrel room – it was being used for storage, but what you\u2019re standing in is actually part of an old sherry tank – the walls are waxed, if you feel them? Pretty amazing. This is Merlot and it is still pretty young. It will have another six months in here.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: My thoughts on Hawke\u2019s Bay Merlot are well known – I\u2019m a huge fan and have been since I tried them when I moved to New Zealand twenty years ago. I thought it was world class, but then it seemed to fall off the radar around 2010 a bit?<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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DM<\/b>: I\u2019m the same. Merlot is so strong here. It doesn\u2019t have that hard tannin like Cabernet that people have a problem with. It\u2019s just a nice, rounded wine. This still has a long way to go but it could be a straight Merlot. It could be a nice entry point for people to get onto other Bordeaux.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>

And Franc. I think that wants \u2018less work\u2019 and for me it is closer to Pinot Noir in how I process it. Cabernet can handle a bit more work, and extraction. But if you do that with Franc it gets a bit hard and a little disjointed. It does have that lifted herbal, and you have to kind of run towards it.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/b>: It is one that can appeal to a younger market I think. Being a younger winemaker – do you think you are here to make wines that can capture their attention?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Potentially. My winemaking naturally fits with that, but \u00c7uvar has an authentic story, which is what younger generations want. We still want Guardians to be in that $50-60 a bottle market. Malbec is something we like – use it in the top Guardians red, so it is Cabernet, Malbec, Merlot. The blend we\u2019ll taste upstairs is almost identical to what we\u2019re looking at for 2024. With Malbec you can work it fairly hard, but when you see the berries the size and colour is insane! The birds love them – it gets sugar early. There\u2019s a savouriness to it, and a chalky, salty kind of character. The Guardians red will mostly likely be a Cabernet-dominant blend but it needs everything else to make it the best it can be.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: And 2025 is going to be a great year?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Yes. But 2024 was a great year too. It was almost perfect. I think the \u201925 whites are potentially very strong. My personal observation is that the \u201925 Chardonnays will be stronger then the \u201824s. And reds might be the other way. But after coming off \u201922 and \u201923 which were very tricky – it\u2019s amazing to see the good wines that are out there from those vintages.<\/p>

So, this is Cornerstone Cabernet. The vineyard is amazing. It can rain 20mm and it just goes. It\u2019s on a slight rise where the land dips away just next door. I\u2019ve always believed that a good old wine was good young too. I\u2019ve done some judging over in Australia, and you taste some young wines, but you know that they\u2019re good. But then, I\u2019d be pretty uncomfortable if I was putting wines in the bottle and going \u201cfingers crossed!\u201d<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/b>: This is drinking so well though. It\u2019s actually quite spectacular. A beautiful balance, and a fragrant lift. You say this will be blended?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: We\u2019ve still got 6 months. There will be blending sessions, and is there chance of something above Guardians? We have a vineyard that should be able to make a bottle of wine that sells for $150. It\u2019s that good. We\u2019ll make that call around the benches when we\u2019re tasting. This is a big thing that George says – \u201cNothing is set in stone\u201d. The good problem to have is the Cabernet, because it always shines. It\u2019s a privilege to work with it really.<\/p>

I\u2019ll show you some Cornerstone Syrah as well. This one is 100% de-stemmed, and next I\u2019ll show you the whole bunch. What do you think about that? It needs a bit of time.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: It\u2019s still quite tight. Great colour, nice white pepper, juicy and mouth-filling. It\u2019s a nice Syrah. That hasn\u2019t bowled me over though. Probably still thinking about that Cabernet.<\/p>

DM<\/b>: This is 100% whole bunch. The released wine will be a mix of those two.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: This is much more like it. Much more character. The other one is just a nice red wine. This has interest, perfume and seems more plush.<\/p>

DM<\/b>: The whole bunch gives you a higher pH and a sense of sweetness. I let it go carbonic for about four days and that starts it. And then you stomp it. It will be an interesting blending. We\u2019ll come back and look at all of these barrels blind. It will just be numbers and I\u2019ll mix them up, so there\u2019s zero bias in your brain. And sometimes on the blending table, you\u2019ll love that one, that one and that one – and you put them together and they don\u2019t work! Generally it\u2019s where all the art in wine comes from – I believe. The bones are there. It\u2019s going to be a sharp Syrah I reckon.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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We\u2019ll have a look at a couple of current releases out of bottle. This is the 2023 Iris Chardonnay which comes from here and the Rivermere Vineyard. A mixture of barrel and tank fermentation. I think it\u2019s looking pretty good, and Hawke\u2019s Bay made some good wines out of \u201923. Once the cyclone had passed we had a bit of poor weather, but then it just got fine. Especially the reds on the gravels that are free-draining. Most of them could hold on.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: It\u2019s a pretty golden colour. This is full malo? It\u2019s a nice, generous wine. Quite a big hit upfront. What\u2019s the main difference between Iris and Guardians?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: It is a step up, but more in terms of subtlety, line and length. You get a more \u2018complete\u2019 palate all the way through. The days are gone when Reserve tier wines had to be bigger and bolder.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: Too often it just meant more wood. New oak became what defined a Reserve wine.<\/p>

DM<\/b>: The consumer of a $30 bottle of Chardonnay just wants their idea of what a Chardonnay is. Yes, it\u2019s got good oak, some sweetness and flesh – and it\u2019s not a Sauvignon! Whereas someone spending $60-70 and is hopefully more discerning; needs a bit more length and finish.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: I think they can cope with a bit more acidity as well, as that level. I know that\u2019s key to a Sav, but if you give it some plushness as well, then I think it is acceptable to that customer.<\/p>

DM<\/b>: And at that price it is perhaps going to be drunk with dinner – so you need the acidity to cut through the fats and proteins. I will probably tighten them up a bit more – just my style. I do like a lick of acid and I do like a bit of malic. Not a lot, but with clones like 95. It can have a bit less and have that fineness. Some clones can get a little bit fat and soapy.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/b>: Can you explain to me how the percentage of malo is arrived at? If someone says it is 70% malo – does that mean there were ten barrels and seven of them went through malo, and three didn\u2019t? Or can you put a barrel through 70% on its own?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: With diacetyl, you want to leave wines post-malo until that goes away, gets degraded. If I sulphured a barrel when it was 70% through, I\u2019d get 100% diacetyl. It would be full-on – right in that zone. So it has to be 100% malo and then blend. That\u2019s how I do whole bunch too – 100% and then blend them with de-stemmed. If you were to go 20%, it would be too green as it\u2019s got juice around the stems the whole time.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/b>: And the effect of whole bunch is because the stems create gaps in the ferment? It\u2019s not every berry pressed against each other?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Yeah, totally. I\u2019ll leave de-stemmed fruit on skins, no problem. But I\u2019m not going to leave the whole bunch. Then when they start getting pretty full-on. There\u2019s a lot of alcohol just sucking out everything.<\/p>

Now, this is a Guardians Chardonnay 2020 – which is the first wine that George made under \u00c7uvar. High Crichton made the \u201920 and the \u201921.<\/p>

WF<\/b>: Gosh, that\u2019s really quite good. Stunning quality for the money. I do love a good French Chardonnay – it\u2019s a weak spot for me, although price is clearly an issue.\u00a0 <\/span>But I do think that if you taste great French wines, there\u2019s just something there that you don\u2019t often see from New Zealand. But the kiwi wines are great bang for your buck.<\/p>

DM<\/b>: It\u2019s only forty years, let\u2019s say, of Chardonnay making in Hawke\u2019s Bay. It\u2019s not a lot of time to play around with your style. In the early days you were just making styles that appealed to the local consumer. That little bit richer and riper, maybe. Within the Chardonnay community it is quite collegiate, so you\u2019re learning off each other. Asking \u201cwhat did you do?\u201d – more solids, higher toast on barrels\u2026 rather than lots of chocolate and vanilla medium toast barrels.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>

We\u2019re going to let it peak out and work with the phenolics that we have. Not picking too late, so not looking for extreme ripeness. Looking for more leaf cover so you get greener berries, but then you oxidise it out. Wild fermentations – all of these things that Burgundy has been doing forever. But – not every technique works. Chardonnay\u2019s my favourite variety. I love to make it and love drinking it. Made a lot of it in the Yarra too. I just like it – it\u2019s so versatile. I\u2019d still have it with red meats – I\u2019ve got no problem with that sort of thing. It\u2019s got enough weight and acid to cut through.<\/p>

It\u2019s a massive opportunity for Hawke\u2019s Bay too. It is harder and harder to sell red wine anywhere now – especially big ones. It\u2019s harder to sell Syrah and Cabernet now then ever before. Even in Australia it is harder to sell Syrah – or Shiraz. Chardonnay is not as uncool as it was ten years ago. It\u2019s why we started that Chardonnay Symposium. I\u2019m on the committee for that and work with Amy Hopkins-Styles and Hawke\u2019s Bay Winegrowers on that, just to start highlighting that. We need to get from good – and we are good – to great. And how do we all just step up to the next level.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t

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WF<\/b>: Also, it\u2019s getting it in front of people. I thought that the Annual Chardonnay Collection was a good idea and getting some traction. I keep an eye on what overseas media say about New Zealand for example. But then I didn\u2019t even get sent it last year, so not sure what next?<\/p>

DM<\/b>: Once you start educating people, and now that there\u2019s less wood and overt malo characters. That\u2019s what people don\u2019t like. At tastings some people\u2019s initial reaction is to back off from Chardonnay. I think, texturally, it got a bit strange for people. We\u2019ve got a thousand hectares of Chardonnay in Hawke\u2019s Bay. Sauvignon is probably the next biggest planting for whites.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>

In New Zealand a lot of success is based on how Sauvignon has gone. But it can\u2019t just be one thing – we have to diversify a bit. Let\u2019s show the world what else we\u2019ve got. Obviously Pinot is right up there too. The older wines story is important though. The other day I showed my daughter a Chardonnay I\u2019d made in Aussie, from 2010. And I said to her \u201cIt\u2019s as old as you – it\u2019s sixteen!\u201d. And I really enjoyed that – it\u2019s a snapshot in time, and I remember making that wine.<\/p>

But that\u2019s the dynamic of wine. You don\u2019t drink old beer. if we can educate people – wine is a different animal. And now with screwcaps – it\u2019s going to last twice as long. You see with that Iris – it\u2019s approachable, but with class and elegance. A lot of drinkers now need that softness, and wines that lean a bit more towards fruit than savoury. Not too much pepper.<\/p>

And this – Cabernet, Merlot, Malbec. 100% Cornerstone. This wine, to me, shows the quality of that vineyard because it was a tough vintage. We had an indian summer after the cyclone and it held on. It\u2019s got a little bit of leafiness that those cooler vintages do have, but when it comes to Cabernet I\u2019m not afraid of that. It\u2019s Cabernet Sauvignon you know? It has that blackberry leaf, so I still want to see it. The gravelly tannins and the great acid line – that\u2019s going to last fifteen years. Maybe not as long as the great vintages, but pretty solid. When I was in Oz, we\u2019d look at older vintages, from the \u201870s, and they age beautifully well.<\/p>

I think with wine professionals, we can be be too technical when it comes to talking about wines. it\u2019s like a mechanic or a lawyer – there\u2019s certain language involved that people can\u2019t connect with. So they get worried and they feel nervous talking about wine. It can\u2019t seem stuffy and elitist. It doesn\u2019t need to be like that.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Arriving at the Cuvar winery – and we\u2019re amazed that everywhere seems dry after a weekend of weather and rain warnings. 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